XSAN for Final Cut Server over Fibre?

[MacMan433]

Hello,

I have been given an assignment to setup a new video editing rig with Final Cut Server. I will be purchasing an Xserve that I will be using to host FCS. The Xserve will then be connected a Promise 16TB RAID and a Mac Pro. In reading the documentation I've seen numerous mentions of an XSAN volume. Do I need XSAN to use FCS over Fibre? Please advise.

[abstractrude]

macman you can do FCS many ways. why dont you tell us how you envision your workflow, and what FCS will do for the workflow. whats the goal of the "video editing rig"

if you are not experienced with these products it might be worth taking a look at a professional integrator. we can help you here though, depends how much time you want to invest in researching how all this stuff works.

To answer your first question.
Yes and no. If you want to edit shared assets that will be presented over fibre and ethernet, then yes you do. You should also have an additional xserve for xsan. that being said you will introduce a whole series of additional variables to the project. Devices can be all sorts of things, Xsan Volumes iSCSI storage, an external hard drive. Whats key here is workflow.

[matx]

To efficiently share media without corrupting all your data, yes, Xsan helps with that.

If you want to use fiber, have a workstation and the server access the files at the highest possible bandwidth, then a small Xsan is probably what you need, but it is possible to do without.

Like Rude Boy said, this is a message to you... Think about your workflow.

[JesusAli]

Hey MacMan433, what is the Mac Pro for in your original description? Is that the editing station?

If there is only 1 editing station, you could get a 4 port (8 strand) fiber channel card for the Mac Pro and connect it to all 4 connectors on the Promise E-Unit.

That would give you fast access to tons of storage for video editing. Over and out. Simple. And you wouldn't really necessarily need Final Cut Server.


* * *

But if you want the video footage stored on the Promise to be accessible to OTHER computers or multiple users on an Ethernet network. Then you would need Final Cut Server. But each Mac Pro has two Ethernet plugs so you still don't technically need the XServe.


* * *

But if you want MULTIPLE users, over fiber, to be able to write to the SAME volume (disk) at the same time, then you DO need Xsan.

And in order to have Xsan, you need to have TWO XServes, and a Fiber Channel Switch. And Fiber Optic wiring installed. And pay for Xsan licenses. It's a big leap in complexity and cost.


Please follow up and let us know what you're thinking. Good luck!

[MacMan433]

Thanks for your replies. I appreciate your help.

The Mac Pro is going to be the editing station.
We would like the XServe to run Final Cut server.

There are three different video editors in the building. I wanted the video editors to be able to keep all of their video files in a consolidated source.

Each video editor will need to be able to pull multiple proxies to their workstation and then upload them back to the Vtrack for storage. I then wanted the Mac Pro to be able to pull video files from the Vtrack for final production work.

We will be having three MacBook Pros downloading proxy files from FCS for the actual editing work. When completed I wanted them to be able to upload them back to the VTrack.

If I'm understanding the posts correctly would it be correct to say that the Vtrack would not be able to be mounted to the Xserve and the Mac Pro simultaneously without XSAN? If so, can I mount the Vtack directly to the Mac Pro with Fibre and how would FCS then work? I'm under the impression that the Vtrack needs to be mounted to the Xserve in order for FCS to work.

Thanks again

[abstractrude]

I would def read the FCS setup guide. you can do it both ways. but your implying that your only gonna edit with macbooks and use the mac pro for finishing?

you will need xsan in this workflow. you need a second xserve, a fibre switch, second network switch or well implemented VLAN and the xsan software (3 copies).

are you in education?

you would have your edit device, and you then would be able to open projects on the mac pro through FCS and edit them directly without proxies for your layoff or export.

DISCLAIMER DO NOT DO THIS:
But in a small non enterprise environment, I could see one mac pro hosting the vtrak storage and FCS, and running final cut pro. The first I time I played with a beta of FCS this is how I did the setup and it worked but its useless if you ever get more than 1 edit station.

[JesusAli]

MacMan433, for all intents and purposes, yes. You need Xsan for simutaneous reading and writing to a single Volume.

But to be baroque, I think you COULD technically connect each of the Controllers in the E-Unit to a different computer (two fiber plugs to each). But if so, you would have to break up your 16 disks into at least two distinct Volumes and each computer would only be able to access the Volume(s) dedicated to the Controller it was connected to. Otherwise you'd have stations trying to write to the same places on a single disk and files would be destroyed.

* * *

Your design sounds good. If you take the Mac Pro out of the equation, it works perfectly for proxy editing.

From what I've heard, you COULD have Final Cut server send down the full ProRes files to a Mac Pro over 1000BT GB Ethernet... it would be slow, but possible.

* * *

Abstract, what do you think about this:

The Xserve has a Quad port fiber channel card. Two ports connect to the Controllers on the E-Unit, the other two ports connect the Xserve to the Mac Pro.

Could the XServe send files to the MacPro this way?

Is there any OS support for File Sharing or Networking directly between two Macs (Initiators) with Fiber Channel?

[abstractrude]

you cant have an initiator to initiator send files over the fibre channel protocol. well i guess you could with IP over fibre channel or the new fibre channel over ethernet but not on macs. you could use a shared R/W - R device like a terrablock I guess. but thats $ more money than xsan.

[MacMan433]

Hello,

Thanks for all of your replies. Abstractrude, this is not being used in education. The setup will be in a small office.
With your help and the help of a consultant here is what I think my final setup will look like.

Xserve running Final Cut Server
Promise Vtrack plugged directly into Xserve
3x MacBook Pro's for proxy editing

My question now is what do I do with the Mac Pro? There doesn't seem to be an easy way to add this into the equation without purchasing XSAN. I understand from these posts that file corruption will occur if I attempt to mount the Vtrack to both the Mac Pro and Xserve without splitting the volumes.

This leads me to believe that the Vtrack needs to plug into the Mac Pro, FCS will still run on the XServe, and from what I read there is an option to tell FCS to watch for assets to be added on a remote drive. Since the Mac Pro is being used for finishing only would that be the ideal setup. Does this make sense?

Also, for my Mac Pro should I buy a Quad or Dual Fibre card? For the Vtrack it looks like it takes two ports to connect to the Xserve and two additional ports to connect to the Mac Pro. I'm assuming I'll need four fibre cables at this point.

Does anyone have a good recommendation on where to buy Fibre cables? I'm looking to do a long cable run without repeaters, but Apple only sells 10 ft cables.

Thanks again

[abstractrude]

wait what consultant? what were his reccomendations? why dont you ask for his plan have him write up a statement of work and then we will tell you if you need a new consultant

matx is someone I would trust with FCS/XSAN.

[abstractrude]

as for your other questions.
You wouldnt want to use it without XSAN. whats the point? if you have to go to a bunch of trouble to finish on that station? is there a specific reason you dont want XSAN? anyway once again your consultant should know all this stuff.

also the only other work flow I could see working here is sending 1 LUN to the mac pro and 1 lun to the xserve. and then checking the assets out or whatever over ethernet over night or something then finishing the next day. weird. you can buy fibre cables all over the place. you probably want LC-LC with 4GB SFPs.

Heres the thing, a consultant should take care of this stuff.
Apple Copper cables have a physical limit of 10 feet due to the nature of Fibre Channel over copper. with LC-LC unless your building has SC duplex in the walls.

Dont forget about the other important stuff like cooling and power

http://store.apple.com/us/product/T7711LL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/TK720LL/A

[matx]